Friday, November 9, 2012
Behaving Courageously
A virtuous trait of character, in virtue ethics, is to be courageous. Having this virtue isn't just important for the soldier on the battle field but also for anyone who has tried something new or apologized to another. It takes courage to do these things. So this is an important trait to have. These seem like fairly innocuous examples and easily fit into our intuitions of what counts as having courage. However, the more perplexing examples may leave us worried about what it means to have this trait and whether virtue ethics gives us the right kind of answers. So I'll pick up on the question brought up in the readings and ask: did the 9/11 hijackers behave courageously when they flew planes into buildings killings hundreds of people? What do you think virtue ethics tells us about the behavior of these individuals?
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It seems unimaginable, but when one tries to imagine the hijacker's point of view, I would have to say yes, they did behave courageously. They knew perfectly well the consequences of their actions and yet they chose to carry it out anyway, thus killing themselves. What could possibly enable a person to kill even one innocent person, much less hundreds? I will never understand the mentality of a terrorist. Regardless of what I personally believe however, it must take courage to face your own death.
ReplyDeleteI agree, although in no means do I agree with this courageous act, I do think it did take some courage for the hijackers to kill so many people and like you said to face their own death.
DeleteI also believe they behaved courageously. and don't understand how one could do it. But if its what there country believes is right then they aren't going to fight against their own and say no.
DeleteI decided to comment on your post because; if I made a separate post it would be your exact words. I truly believe that the hijackers behaved in a courageous way. To them, hijacking American planes and killing innocent people was their way of standing up for their religion and people. I absolutely do NOT agree with what they did. I don’t believe anyone should act in such a way. That horrible day the hijackers changed the lives of the patrons of the airplane, and the friends and family members of the patrons on the plane. Virtue ethics emphasizes the role of ones character, I think the hijackers character is tested and proven when they boarded all those American planes that dreadful morning. They lived and died for their religion, which is what they live by.
DeleteKelly,
DeleteThanks for the post. I agree about the unimaginable evil that must be present for a person to carry out such acts. As you suggest though, in this case the actions are courageous based in their own beliefs.
I would have to say yes; unfortunately I do believe that the hijackers did behave courageously. These particular people knew that they were going to die and they were going to kill the planes passengers and the people in the trade center, but continued on with the horrific action. Like the book states “Sometimes we need the courage to create a situation that will be unpleasant for us.” (EMP 162) I do not believe that calling the hijackers of 9/11 courageous is praising their performance as the book states. I believe in the situation of 9/11 this was an act of negative courage. They wanted to kill themselves and many other people although I do believe it took courage for the hijackers to get on the planes, I believe it was still a horrific act on their part. The hijackers were acting on this situation because that is what their leader wanted, so I believe in the leader’s eyes and their countries eyes for some, they were being courageous. I am not sure what could drive people to want to kill themselves and so many others. I think that virtue ethics tell us that the hijacker’s behavior came from their own priorities in their lives. I think the book is correct when it states “the virtues may differ from person to person.” (EMP 167) I think not only the virtues themselves can differ, but also the meanings of the virtues. Although we will never know exactly what drove the hijackers to want to kill so many, I believe that it did indeed take some kind of courage to fly the planes in to the world trade center.
ReplyDeleteEven though through our point of view the hijackers of the planes on 9/11 were evil,and their acts killed thousands of people, the means they did to do so were courageous in a sense. It the American people it is difficult to think of it this way but think of all the things they had to do. Take flying lessons, learn the way to their destination as to not make a single mistake, go to the airport, get on a plane with hijacking and death in mind, take over the plane and then crash it into a building taking their lives and many others. If they were not a bit courageous there is no way they could even hijack the plane let alone crash it into the buildings and take their own life. Death is no easy thing it is scary even for the bravest man because what happens next no matter what your religious beliefs may tell you is a bit uncertian until it happens.
ReplyDeleteI think virtue ethics tells us that the behavoir of these individuals even as heinous and evil as it may have been, was courageous and in their mindset was "right" to their leader and to their religious beliefs. No matter what I personally believe and feel from what they did and the evil they caused, they had the guts to do it.
I think the 9/11 hijackers did behave courageously when they flew the planes into the trade centers. These individuals had to possess some courage to do what they did. They knowingly faced death and that requires a fair amount of courage to do. I think that people might have a problem saying that the hijackers were courageous because we equate being courageous with positive things. It is a compliment, a good thing to say someone is courageous. And we obviously do not view their actions as such. The horrific crime they committed is not seen as good or positive it is exactly the opposite.
ReplyDeleteAccording to virtue ethics, virtues will vary from person to person and it even goes on to say they vary from society to society. The hijackers were from a different society, they were from a different country, and they did not lead the same kind of lives as us here in America. They had a different view of the world; they had an entirely different experience. It’s hard to understand their actions because we cannot view the world the way they did. But in their eyes they were doing the right thing and behaving courageously, based on their lives and their experience, even if we do not see it that way.
I would have to agree that the hijackers did have courage when they performed the act they did. They ended their lives for what everybody else wanted in their country. It was wrong in so many ways and life changing in so many ways. I think they showed a different kind of courage out there. None that would be subjected for applause because it was wrong and no good came out of it. The hijackers intentionally did what they did to prove a point in the wrong way. From their world they saw this as doing right and nothing is going to change their mind. They do not believe in the same kind of things that we do, they are from a whole different world. They saw courage in what they were doing and knew they were going to prove a point back home and people would be praising them for what they did. I think that when it comes to virtue ethics, i see it as they didn't act as bringing a good consequence, they were aware of what they were doing. Virtue ethics focuses more on teaching people to have good character traits, or in this case, none at all.
ReplyDeleteFrom the perspective of the hijacker I can understand how they were perceived as courageous; however I do not agree with this statement. I do see both sides and understand the point of view here. When I was reading about the virtues one thing really stuck with me, “According to Aristotle, virtues are a midpoint between extremes…” (EMP p.160) Personally I do not see the terrorists as courageous for the simple reason that they are not at a midpoint. They are risking so much and running to their own deaths; terrorism is about the extremist view that the only way to resolve the problem is be extermination.
ReplyDeleteI find it interesting to be the first to disagree.
Great point! Your right the terrorists are not at a midpoint. You have a valid point about the only way to resolve the problem is to be exterminated.
DeleteI agree with you 100 percent. The terrorists were extremists. They didn't respond in a courageous way. I can't see how killing innocent people would be courageous.
DeleteI have to admit I was leaning towards the hijacker's actions being courageous because they willing faced death, BUT you are so correct to say there were most definitely not at a midpoint, but at an extreme! I think you really hit the nail on the head with this!
DeleteI agree Jennifer. It's hard to determine if it was a courageous act because for their country, I'm sure they see it as a courageous act. I was leaning the other way at first but when I think about what the word courageous means to me, I don't think the hijackers were being courageous on that day.
DeleteI would have to say yes the hijackers acted courageously flying the planes on 9/11. They were doing it for their country and what they thought was right. They believe risking their own lives in fight for others is right then so be it. Everyone has different things that they see as right and wrong.
ReplyDeleteI don't agree with you but I do see your point. I do realize they were doing what they thought was right for their country but I don't think courageous would be the right word for it.
DeleteI have to agree with you Dallas. As weird as it sounds, the hijackers did act courageously when choosing to fly those planes on 9-11. In their country, they were doing what was "taught" to them. In their minds, they were performing a remarding task asked by their country. My opinion is pretty much the same as others in that, what they did was a horrible thing.
DeleteI don't think the terrorists were courageous. I think if the terrorists were courageous they would have saved lives instead of killing lots of people. There is nothing courageous about killing tons of innocent people. When I think of the word courageous, I think of brave, strong and positive. Their acts were not brave, strong or positive. They took an easy way out in my opinion.
ReplyDeleteIt would be easy for me to sit here and say that the hijackers who killed innocent Americans and destroyed families were anything but courageous. However, in the context of virtue ethics there actions would be seen as courageous. The reasoning is that even though they did something that most of us find beyond horrible, in their own beliefs what they did was something that was commendable. Just because in our own view point what they did was wrong, they adhear to a completely different set of virtues and beliefs. Taking as much emotion as I can out of this situation this is what it would look like. Basically the hijackers did something that they knew was going to end their life, but something that they thought was the right thing to do in line with their own cultural and personal beliefs.
ReplyDeleteI do believe that the hijackers acted courageously that day knowing that they were planning out their own deaths when they took over the plane. It was a very evil act but in doing so they chose to follow what their leader wanted by flying into the World Trade Centers which meant ending their lives and the lives of thousands of other people. But in doing this they did act courageously and what they did was thought as a good thing in their mind and they were doing so for their own country. As stated in the book “Sometimes we need the courage to create a situation that will be unpleasant for us.” (EMP 162).
ReplyDeleteMorgan,
DeleteI agree that the hijackers acted courageously "within" the model we are talking about. They engaged in something that they knew was going to kill them, all because of their strong beliefs.
As disgusting as it is to think and to say, the hijackers of the 9/11 attack were courageous. It takes a lot of courage to do what you belive is right and I believe that those mean thought what they were doing was right. It was evil and horrible to the innocent ones who suffered and they ones who lost their loved ones. As Morgan stated above and the book mentioned it does take courage to create a situation that will be unpleasant. I don't believe that 9/11 was pleasant for anyone. Courage has many different meanings and can be used in many different situations. Soldiers are courageous, the little kid who is being bullied and defends himself is courageous, the people who defend what they believe in no matter what the consequences, such as the Jews or Jehovah's Witnesses during the Holocost are also incredibly brave and courageous. Those men on the planes who gave their lives for what they belived in must be put in the same category, but obviously they caused horrible events to take place and its just harder for to admit.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately I would have to say that from the persepective of the hijackers, they did behave couragously. All judgements aside as the people that targeted my country and my people for their own benefit. So, from the perspective of the hijackers they were doing what their leader asked them to do. In their eyes they were willing to sacrifice their lives to follow these orders in a cause they believed in and for someone who they believed in. For the hijackers to knowingly face death had to take courage. From my perspective, the one that most Americans could agree with is that they were cowards and in humane for killing all those people for what reason? for what benefit? My question though is, in 1945 when we sent our men to bomb hiroshima, with their knowing they may or may not come back from that mission alive, were they courageous? Heck yes they were, but from the perspecitve of the people in hiroshima, probably not. Just like our view of the hijackers. The concept of virtues and what they stand for and what they mean not only variate on a cultural basis but also on a personal basis as we ask ourselves what it is we believe in and where we stand on the issues at hand.
ReplyDeleteI do think that the hijackers in 9/11 behaved courageously.I think that this is ironic when today is Veteran's Day to be saying this but it is stated that virtues are based on society and in their society this act was honored.It is interesting to me how some of these virtues might change over time. For example the hatred of the Jews to the Nazi's. At the time the German people were taught to hate the Jews and that they were the reason the Germans lost WWI. This antisemitism was bread into so many young Germans that by WWII the German Nazis believe this to be true. It was honorable for these young men and women to serve their country but now the same SS soldiers that once killed Jews are in the aftermath understanding that what they did was not honorable but horrendous. I think virtues are based on cultures but as far as the hijackers they did what they had to do and in virtue ethics these people are considered courageous for the time being.
ReplyDeleteFrom the hijackers view, they did behave couageously, as horrible as it is to say. They knew what they were doing and that were going to die reguardlessly. This makes them courageous to their own people, just like our American soldiers are courageous everyday overseas. They risk their own safety and sometimes lives fighting for our freedom over here. Because we are the ones we are at war with, it does not seem right for us to say they are courageous for crashing the planes into the world trade centers. However, to their own people that is exactly what they are. They knew that very day before they hijacked the planes that their lives as well as thousands of other were going to end in the upcoming minutes. Acts of courage are not always honorable, noble, or good. This is one of the acts that certainly is not. Just as someone robbing a bank would take a lot of courage on their part, but it would not be considered a "good" courageous act.
ReplyDeleteKeriann,
DeleteI like the point you made about a bank robber using courage to rob a bank. I think that is a good illustration and important to understand that their are courageous acts that are by no way "good" acts.
It makes me sick to think of the hijackers on September 11th as courageous people, but from their point I too would have to agree that they were. If you think about the places our soldiers are stationed I am sure the people in those countries do not view our soldiers as being couragous just as us Americans do not few those hijackers as couragous, but in a sense they were be couragous for THEIR country. Those people were risking their lives for the people in their country just ask americans risk their lives for the people in America. It's really a tough call to make :/
ReplyDeleteCourage is the ability to do something that frightens one or having strength in the face of pain or grief. I am sure those hijackers were frightened, and they did have strength to follow through even with they knew the end result was going to be death.
I'm right there with you Larysa, it is hard to even say that they acted in any way courageous. However, in the context we are talking about it appears that that is exactly what they have done. I do not condone their actions in any way shape or form but do understand that to them their acts were courageous.
DeleteFrom the hijackers point of view, they believed that they were being courageous. However, the book stated that it is not courage if it is done for evil. I completely agree with this statement. The true courage lay in the men and women that fought back against the hijackers. They were put into a position where they could either sit down and let whatever happen happen, or be courageous and fight back and save the lives of others on the ground. It really just depends though, because I think that a persons view on what is courageous or not depends on where the person is from. A person from the middle east would have thought that the hijackers were courageous because they were fighting for a cause that they believed in. Americans on the other hand, tend to disagree because what they did was bad.
ReplyDeleteVery well said Alisa. It is all about perspective and culture.
DeleteI agree Alisa. I don't consider the hijackers courageous but I'm sure their country does. The courageous people on the planes were the innocent people on those planes who had their lives taken.
Delete
ReplyDeleteI like how our text (p. 161 ) defines a moral virtue as, a trait of character, manifested in habitual action, that is good for anyone to have. I also agree with our text that everyone needs courage, not just soldiers. More common examples of the virtue courage are present everyday life issues. For instance, if someone hits a car in a parking lot with nobody around, it takes courage to admit to authorities that they are responsible. It would also take a lot of courage for a person to admit they cheating if the person they cheated off got into trouble first.
I believe the example of the 9/11 hijackers flying into buildings killing hundreds of people not as a virtue but rather a vice. This is because in such cultures, yes it is considered courageous to risk your life for certain beliefs. However, to the general person, which the definition of a moral virtue mentions, a vice is an evil act. Overall, the actions of the 19 hijackers on 9/11 were extremely wicked (p.162).
I think that the 9/11 hijackers did not behave courageously when they took over the plan killing hundreds of people. Being courageous means to have the mental or moral strength to venture, persevere, and withstand danger. Being courageous does not entail going onto a plane with the orders to kill everyone and yourself and make sure that it crashes into someplace huge and meaningful and that has the most people in it in order to try to make a point across to a country that you have problems with. Terrorist attacks are not acts of courageousness, period. The behavior of these certain individuals that do that must have some major problems associated with them mentally. Rachels says that the brave evil doer has two qualities of character, one admirable, which is courage, and one not, which is the willingness to defend a despicable regime. The behavior of these individuals is maybe thought of to be courageous from their point of view, but because it was deployed in an evil cause his behavior is considered wicked. I do not understand how anyone could do such harm to a country in this way. I know there are innocent people killed over in other countries every day, but this act was disgusting and no one in their right mind would ever do this to another country or another human being unless they have serious problems and are mentally off in some way.
ReplyDeleteThe persons involved in the premeditated acts that led to the deaths of thousands of people on 9/11 were not by any means courageous. Obviously they did not realize the storm of retribution that would follow in their path. If they had an inkling of the ripple effect that their action would cause upon their own people I think they would have not done it.
ReplyDeleteMany of the ones who thought these acts up and orchestrated them are dead. Many of their friends and families, are dead. Those who survived the past 12 years of being hunted down and either jailed or killed by our servicemen, allies, or their own people are without a doubt regretting the actions of these martyrs to a cause that will never be fulfilled.
In my mind I believe that courage is both a daily tax one pays for doing the right things and carrying out the necessary work that is called for in pursuit of justice, equality, and fairness for all. This applies to the layman as well as the fireman or soldier. To tell the truth, seek forgivness when wrong, or to stand up for ones principles but know when to not fight - these are courageous things.
The extremists who have spent the last four decades killing each other's people and waging war with smoke, mirrors, and bombs for anyone to die near have wasted their hatred and ignorance on it all. Tens of thousands of lives lost for no purpose other than to service the warlords and corrupt governments of countries that have been here and gone within several years, time and again. Like the shifting sands and blowing weeds of the countries they propogate, their message is passed on but the messengers continue to disappear.
Indoctrination of hatred, and educating the young to follow men who have no love for their world does not breed courage. It breeds a form of robotics in humans that is terrifying. Bred, raised, and trained to be the little terminators of all things that do not bend the knee to their beliefs or power structure these nearly mindless meat puppets are sent out with doghmatic rhetorical zeal to propogate their message of anger and use a corrupted version of an ancient peaceful religion to do it.
Where is the courage in their ways? If you do not value the lives of those you kill, if you do not value the mud hut shit stained life you came from why would it bother you to lose it? If you fail to carry out the mission you will be killed, your family and friends killed. Even if you escape, you will have no means, no friends, and no place to ever feel safe from these people.
What choice have you then?
No, I do not agree that what was done by these persons was considered courageous. It was a twisted final act on lives devoid of purpose, devoid of love and truth about the reasons why they should even draw breath. We can throw a lot of blame around for that, but ultimately we cannot rest on our laurels because we might understand this.
They are still making their version of soldiers, and their brand of courage and deeds that will be done - never to any else's liking but their masters own.
I have to agree with you that what they did is not courage. Even though courage is defined as doing something even through feeling afraid, I feel like it carries a sense of nobility. Humans just have shaped courage to be a virtuous characteristic. For that reason, I cannot accept them being courageous. I guess we would also have to question if they were even scared because some may have been brainwashed from a young age that this is what they had to do.
DeleteI really can't bring myself to say that the terrorists of 9/11 were courageous people. Even though courage means to act on something although afraid, I feel like it goes without saying that courage is a virtuous trait and not just an adjective that can apply to any action through fear. Courage is a moral characteristic and I can't believe that killing innocent people is moral no matter the religious beliefs or reasons.
ReplyDeleteI read in someone else's comment that she believed anyone who could kill that many innocent people has something wrong mentally. I completely agree with that. There are a lot of issues I feel strongly about and people I do not like too but that doesn't mean I want to kill for those issues or kill everyone I don't like. I think the terrorists do have something wrong mentally whether they were brainwashed from a young age or whatever the reason.
I do not believe that the 9/11 hijackers were couragous at all!!! I have my own definition of couragous and so does the virtue ethics. Couragous, in my eyes, is being brave and fighting for our country, telling the truth, doing something good for someone, and bringing yourself to do something you didn't think you could. Being couragous is committing good deeds and good duties. To kill thousands of innocent people is not couragous, it is just plain wrong. Like Desiree states above, "Anyone who could kill that many innocent people has something mentally wrong"! I completely agree with her and whoever else stated that. Even killing just one person because you want to, or harming someone, or causing an accident on purpose; that is not couragous. Our soldiers and our veterans who put their lives out on the line for us, people they do not even know, are couragous! Telling the truth to someone is couragous! Saving someone's life, saving an animals life, and even something as presenting a speech in front of thousands is couragous.
ReplyDeleteIn our book, Bill Maher implied that these hijackers were couragous. But, philospher Peter Geach disagreed with him and from the virtue ethics point of view, virtue ethics would state that these hijackers were not couragous. "Courage in an unworthy cause is no virtue; still less is courage in an evil cause". That is something Geach stated in the book and I completely agree with him on that and believe that courage is something that is a virtue and something that needs to be taken seriously! It is a hard trait to obtain in my opinion. It is not easy to be couragous. An for the hijackers of 9/11, it seemed just way too easy for them to commit that horrible performance.
I believe that virtue ethics tells us that these hijackers were not couragous. I look up to what Peter Geach states and he did mention that courage shows praise on a performance and we do not want to praise that particular performance!!! But, virtue ethics did state that it is not 100% right to not call the terrorists couragous due to how they behaved in the face of danger. They stated these terrorist as admirable and detestable. As Maher suggested, they were couragous and courage is a good thing, but because this courage was deployed in such an evil way, this behavior is on the whole extremely wicked!!!
As many others would agree, the hi-jackers of 9/11 would not be considered courageous in our culture. But to those indivuals involved, they most likely believed they were being courageous in taking over planes and ending their own lives for their country. Same thing goes with the kamikaze suicide bombers--they believed that they were being courageous in ending their lives for their country. But in means of virtue ethics, I personally wouldn't consider these people as courageous, but rather cowardly. How could they do something so ridiculous and horrible and end so many innocent lives? I mean, they could have at least targeted more guilty people or handled the situation differently. They caused so much pain and suffereing to America by doing such a horrible act. But it is such a two-sided opinion because it involves two different countries and of entirely different cultures. Each culture views morals and what is right and wrong completely differently.
ReplyDeleteThis is a very tough topic to discuss whether terrorism was curagous or not because as Americans all we see is heartache. However, followers of these terrorists see it as courage. This statement goes back to the rules of cultural revitalism it is neither objectively wrong or objectively right that these men were courageous.
ReplyDeleteAs bizarre as it may sound, these terrorists in their own minds, were performing a courageous act for their government. These individuals were only doing what was "taught" to them. In their country, they were doing what their leader had asked, and they beleive they were right. Its sick to think that someone could believe that doing such a horrible act would in return reward them ( well their familys).
ReplyDelete