Friday, November 2, 2012
Free Will
Campbell suggests that the scope of our free will is very narrow thanks to elements like heredity, environment, and character. He claims that individuals with poor character or those that are raised in vicious environments go on to behave in ways that they are not fully responsible for because they could not have acted otherwise in some sense. Do you agree with that? Do you think that how one is raised limits a person's freedom?
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Personally I think that people raised in a poor/cruel way do not always come out to act in a way that shows they have been raised like that. Sometimes they may act out in a rage concerning a problem they have had to deal with before. But I also think that people who have been raised in a "normal" society can have bad thoughts run through their mind. I think it is the way someone is born.
ReplyDeleteI guess I don't really understand, so you think they have a free will choice or not? I personally believe that the way someone is born does not determine their future or their choices down the road. There are many people who have rose from adversity to make decisions that would contradict what was "supposed to happen."
DeleteI believe that the way a person is raised definatley plays a part in how people act, but I do not think it is an excuse for the way they do. If someone is raised in a violent non-loving home, they may be either not very nice people, or very nice people. I think it has a lot to do with how a person thinks and how they want to act. They could say, "I was raised in a not veery good home, so I will not put my family through that, or I won't act the way everyone else did because it was so bad." This could also be said vise versa, if a person is raised in a very loving home with good structure, sometimes they turn out violent or mean. It all depends on the person, and how they beleieve their life shoud be. I don't think they way you are raised is a good explanation of behavior alone. Granted it plays a part.
ReplyDeleteKeriann,
DeleteI agree with you that to some level the way a person is raised does determine to an extent how they will make decisions or how they will think. I do not think it is the end all however, at some point in peoples lives they will be able to make a free decision about the person they are to become.
I see what your saying to a point but I honestly think most people overcome what they see growing up. I think society takes a big role on people's everyday decisions. Some people can grow up in abusive homes but don't do it as adults. They know that abuse is unacceptable in society.
DeleteCampbells idea reminds me of the ever ongoing nature vs nurture debate. It is true that the type of enviornment does CONTRIBUTE to how someone will be and act but for it to be the sole proprietor, no. Throughout history we see that people in poverty have risen up and have become remarkable people and true that we may recognize them more so as great people because of their environment but I think that it is what is taught and instilled with them throughout their lives and by the people and most importantly what they themselves believe in. We also see wealthy people rise and do great things as well, and in their position their wealth allows them to help others out. I dont think that just one thing could be counted as to how a person ends up being or why they make the choices they do.
ReplyDeleteI'm right on board with you Jessy. Although an environment does CONTRIBUTE it is not ultimately what is going to shape the way the rest of an individuals life looks. They will have the ability to make their own decisions that will dictate the way their life goes and how they react to situations.
DeleteWell said Jessy and Riley!
DeleteI do believe that the way on is raised does have an effect on how people act and what kinds of decision they make. Although I do not think that these people don’t have a choice in the way the act and the decisions they make. I believe that everyone has a choice whether to act morally or not. I believe that it is that person character that in fact helps that person make decisions, but I believe that people can always change there character and choose to make the moral decision when it comes to making decisions. I know of people that have been raised in very loving families and have still chosen to make bad decisions on their own. I do not agree with Campbell in the sense that peoples decisions are already made prior to the particular situation when they make them. I do not think that how a person was raised has everything to do with how they make decisions. I do believe that it does play a role in a person’s life depending on how they were raised but does not control 100% of reasoning to why they made a particular decision. I also disagree with Campbell when he states that a free will act is rare. I think that free will is done whenever someone makes a decision for themselves and if there is more than one choice to be decided upon they could have made a different decision if they had wished. This particular subject of free will proved to be a very difficult one for me to comprehend a hundred percent. I do feel strongly though that a person does have the will no matter how they were raised to make a moral decision in any situation if they choose.
ReplyDeleteHow a person was raised certainly influences the way he/she makes a decision, but it doesn't mean choice doesn't exist. If my parents share their views with me and tell me that any other view is wrong, I have a choice to accept their statement as truth or to do my own research and come to my own conclusions.
ReplyDeleteI am living proof that there is always a choice. 99% of my family share the same lifestyle/beliefs. I am the only one that has made the choice to live another way. Not to rebel for the sake of rebellion. But because I am curious, have what I refer to as the right amount of skepticism, and I prefer making educated choices. More importantly, I accept the outcomes as the result of the choice I made.
If someone makes a decision a certain way because they didn't know there was another way, it wasn't that the choice wasn't there. They didn't choose to find out if there was an alternative.
It is my personal opinion that those who promote determinism and other similar theories should not be taken seriously. They look to justify their actions rather accept responsibility for them. There is always a choice.
Campbell's idea that free will is very limited is not something I generally agree with. When it pertains to the issue about people possessing poor character or being exposed to viscous things growing up, I think there is much more free will than Campbell gives credit for. The reason I believe there is a greater amount of free will is the personal experience I have seen in those close to me making choices freely to better their own lives. An example is a person who I knew smoked marijuana on a daily basis for over 10 years. Granted during this time there was little forward progression of his life. He exercised free will and quit smoking, the result has been a much more productive life for society and himself. It seems to me that everyone has the ability to make decisions that go against all odds. These decisions are what give us free will, even though everything about our past would suggest a certain action or decision, we have the ability to go the other way.
ReplyDeleteI believe free will is the ability to have a choice. Regardless of your heredity or environment you still have a choice. You have a choice on whether you are going to steal or purchase an item. The consequences of the decision are what makes the decision morally right or wrong and the individual who made the choice are responsible for those consequences, good or bad. We as a society do tend to try and justify the consequences of a choice by blaming heredity and environment. And I can see where it can be said that heredity and environment can guide someone into a decision. How someone was raised, where they live, income, belief structure, size of family etc can shape someone's character and ultimately your character is going to help you make that choice. But then again there is personal accountability. When is it time to hold one responsible for the consequences of one's choices. However if free will is only the ability to make the choice all of those things listed have no bearing on the ability to make a choice, only on the results of the choice.
ReplyDeleteI agree Erin. Everyone has a choice! Even if someone grew up in a tough environment they can overcome those issues and become a better person. There are people that come from perfect families and still do bad things to themselves and others. I know plenty of people who had a bad environment growing up and they are great people. If anything, they have learned what they don't want to be.
DeleteYes, I do believe that your environment plays a part in growing up. Also how you are raised and what influences you have in your life. I think if you are raised by negative people it is going go affect you in a negative way. Some people find a way out of their bad past and grow up to be hard working people. People around you have a great impact on your life as well, some people grow up in the crowds because they feel that is the only place they really fit in and it hurts them in the end.
ReplyDeleteFree will is the ability of agents to make choices free from certain kind of constraints. Everybody has a choice in life, they don't have to choose just one side. Free will is the meaning of choice. It is obvious that life is full of things to choose from and we often go to great lengths to explore them and find out the outcome of each. I think that if there was no free will, then there would be no capability of people making significant changes in their life time.
Brooke, what I have seen in my short life experience is that environment does play some sort of role in how people are influenced. At some point though I believe everyone has the ability to make free choices that are not subject to constraint. I have seen many instances where a person makes a decision that is against everything that logic and previous behavior would suggest is going to happen.
DeleteI agree Brooke I believe that everyone does have the ability to decide otherwise and it does not soley depend on how they have been raised. I disagree with Campbell when he states that the act of Free Will is rare. I believe that we are faced with acts of free will everyday for the majority of the day.
DeleteI agree with Campbell in the sense that environment will affect behavior. However, his parallel to free will is off-base. Campbell defines the scope of free will based off percentages of where people fall. In essence, 45% of people living in homes with domestic abuse will go on to be domestic abusers (made-up stat). This isn't a reflection on free will, in my opinion. Free will is the ability to choose whatever you want to choose. The scope is broad; the options are many.
ReplyDeleteI don't agree that there are limits. If one person from a domestic abuse home becomes the world's leading advocate against it, free will is on full display. Just because a majority of people follow the same narrow path as the one they are raised in does not discount that there are other paths.
It's more probable that one will portray what was portrayed on them. This fact does not negate the notion that people can act differently because of free will.
This is a hard one to fully agree, and disagree with. Many individuals who come from poor/disturbing places in life do not always turn out being "bad seeds". A lot of these people are looking for a way out of the bad situations they came from. It does tend to become ones first instinct to continue a lifestyle that they are used to being part of; after all, it is all that they are familiar with. Campbell is valid in that one’s environment does affect how the individual chooses to live. Just because you come from a home of an alcoholic, doesn’t mean that you will follow that same path. Each of us has the ability to change and become something better. One’s free will determines the outcome of their personal choices.
ReplyDeleteExactly Telsa! I fully believe that you choose to be who you are even under bad circumstances unless you are a sick person. I didn't have the best childhood but I think I turned out to be a decent person and citizen.
DeleteHi Amanda! Thanks for the view. Though I do not know you, I can sense you are a good person. After all, you are in college and that shows that you value your self, and want a better life! Kudos to you !
DeleteI do believe that our free will is affected by heredity, environment, and character. If someone were to be born with an illness that causes him or her to act differently than the accepted norm in our society I do not believe they have any control over that. There are instances where someone with an illness is consciously able to make there own decisions and in such situation I think that they do have the ability to choose how they act despite being raised in a vicious environment. Many times someone that is raised in an abusive or toxic environment they are able to choose a different path and make decisions for themselves. For example marrying someone with the complete opposite characteristics from whom they were raised by. I think that someone shouldn’t use how he or she was raised as an excuse for the way they act. They should try to seek better in their life.
ReplyDeleteI think to a certain extent a person’s environment dictates how they will act in certain situations. If a child is exposed to a violent and bad environment he/she may grow up with a skewed idea of right and wrong. This is extremely unfair to the child, but it is what it is. As far as using this as an excuse to violent behavior, I think that is wrong. There are a lot of other factors that contribute to a person’s personality and character, not just environment. People from good homes commit heinous crimes, and people from bad environments can grow up and become good people. Their environment’s contributed to their upbringing but their character is so much more than where they grew up.
ReplyDeleteI do think that how a person is raised does limit a person’s freedom. I think that if a person is raised in a vicious environment they are more susceptible to behave in ways that they grew up basically knowing and thinking that it was okay to behave like that. If someone is never punished growing up I think it has an effect on how they behave as adults, and if they have always gotten away with something then they have that mentality still. I do believe though that everyone should be held responsible for their behavior, but that is just how I was raised also. If someone could not have acted otherwise and was not fully responsible for what they did, then that is where the mental psychiatric people come in and they get away with it until they do it again or hopefully get better. I think it is hard for someone, if raised in bad environments, to behave normally because I think they would have anger or think bad about people who look to have better lives than them. It almost makes it okay for them to hurt someone else because they themselves are hurting and they need someone to feel their pain as well.
ReplyDeleteI can understand how you think some people are limited to freedom by losing values they weren't raised with but for the most part everyone knows what is expected by society. I think everyone knows not to steal or kill even if they had a poor environment growing up.
DeleteI agree Amanda everyone knows not to steal,kill, rape and so on no matter what kind of environment they may have been raised in. I do think that some people choose to use the way they were raised for excuses to crimes they have committed. I do believe that everyone has the ability to choose the moral choice.
DeleteI am the only person who didn't do the readings because they were not in the place they were suppose to be and by the time the teacher had answered my email I was at work and unable to do them? Did everybody take the quiz as well? She emailed me and told me that the quiz was canceled and never told me where to find the readings so I apologize for not partaking in the discussion. Any feedback would be appreciated as the teacher still doesn't answer emails and I have been stressing out about this since Friday the 26th
ReplyDeleteI meant Am I the only person.......?
DeleteI couldn't find the readings either and had no idea what was going on until I got e-mails from two classmates (I think one was from you) hopefully it was cancelled :/
DeleteI too am really confused about that quiz because it seems like no one has said anything about it except the email I got from you I think that said it was cancelled. I figured she would have made a post on here about it or on D2L.
DeleteI think there is always the freedom to choose. I certainly think that life and childhood experiences can have a huge impact on the way a person thinks and acts but life is comprised of choices and I think that nearly all people know when they are doing something deeply morally wrong (like killing) It's whether or not they choose to listen to that inner voice and if they tune it out it may be silenced forever.
ReplyDeleteI agree Michelle. I think everyone has a choice and most people know what is exceptable in society and whats not.
DeleteI do not agree that how someone is raised limits a person's freedom because there are many people who become quite the opposite of those they are raised by/with. Not to say that the environment doesn't have an impact and that it is easy for a person raised in a vicious environment to escape the "norms" they were taught,but ultimately a person will have to choose how they are going to behave. They alone are responsible for their choices and have the will to make those choices.
ReplyDeleteI do believe that the way a person is raised has a big impact on how a person can think or act, but I don't think that it should completely excuse anything bad that they might do. Regardless of whether or not you were raised in a bad household, there are certain things that a person should know that they shouldn't do. Everybody has the ability to make the choice to do good, even a person that has not seen much good done throughout their lives.
ReplyDeleteI personally do not think that just because someone is raise in a bad or a good environment that the person will turn out either bad or good. People come out of bad situations all the time and make their lives exponentially better. I believe that all people make what they want to out of a situation. Although I do think that your environment influences you I don't think that it determines who you are. "Good People" can do just as horrible things as a person raise in a poor environment. All people know right from wrong it is just what they choose.
ReplyDeleteGreat point! People make what they want to out of any situation and everyone was has the ability to choose the moral choice in a decision.
DeleteI do not believe our free will can be limited if we grow up in a poor environment. I've seen many people pull free from the habits they seen growing up and changing it for the better. For example, I grew up with name calling. I never call my kids names. I do realize this may have hurt my self-esteem at some point, but its not my character by any means. I'm a completely different parent than my parents were. A person is responsible for their own actions and changing the cycle.
ReplyDeleteI personaly do believe that a person's environment can have a big effect a persons free will by effecting what options they have to choose from. Most crime activities do take place in ghetto areas and such. People there don't have the advantages of what a they could have somewhere else. This however, might not effect their free will. Free will is the ability for a person to decide what her or she wants to do out of a variety of options. They still have free will, just might have to make decisions me or you would never have to think about.
ReplyDeleteI absolutely think that what type of environment a person is raised in has a lot to do with their personality and how they forms their morals but I don't think it is the sole determining factor in free will. Lots of people in abusive environments grow up to be people with extremely honest and good morals. Others simply don't. On the flip side, people raised in healthy environments can end up doing a lot of harm to others. This is why I think environment forms opinions, morals, values, etc. but it doesn't control free will. I believe it can influence free will to some extent but not to the extent that it completely controls it.
ReplyDeleteI agree, I think how a person was raised does play a role in their decisions, but I believe that a person still has the ability to choose the moral choice.
DeleteI agree Riley. I also disagree with Campbells idea of the act free will being rare. I believe that we are faced with decisions were we act on our free will everyday for the majority of the day. I believe that each person no matter what their past they can decide morally or not.
ReplyDeleteI do believe that how you are raised CAN affect a person and how they act in the future, but I think that as human beings we have the power to control our actions and we can either choose to act in a positive OR negative way. There are a lot of children that come from bad families that have taken different roads and chose better lives for themselves, but its up to that person to do it. You can't blame who you are today on how you were raised and treated in the past it just doesn't work that way.
ReplyDeleteBefore I begin my take on this, I just want to say that Mr. Campbell's paper is just way too much material in such a small package. His run on paragraphs had me questioning my reasoning skills in some areas. Maybe it was sudden onset of ADD.
ReplyDeleteI was born into a hard working lower middle class home. Through will of merit and some interesting events that left my family life changed on several occassions I was soon being raised in a household where we got what we wanted most of the time, and the family was accustomed to vacations and larger homes every few years, and so on. This allowed me to have access to things that helped to shape me physically and mentally throughout my adolescence and teenage years.
Though I could have had access to private schooling and entirely different friendship circles, I fought to stay with those that I grew up with and followed them through the public school system. In doing so, where I was at, I subjected myself to hardships that were not entirely necessary.
I had many friends, and still do, who could tell you that they came from broken families, poverty, rough neighborhoods, and the like. We all got along fine and most of us got out of our teenage years unscathed. This was through our own personal growth and choices to be on track and moving forward.
Some allowed alcohol, drugs, and their socioeconomical situations and family background or upbringing tell the tale of how they would end up. In prison, alcoholics, or in some cases just dead.
I don't buy into it though. I always had a choice to be how I wanted and make the decisions that brought me to where I am now.
From my experience those who complain about how their lives are corrupt because of where they came from or how they were raised are usually those who have adopted the poverty mindset. It's a bad place to be. It allows one to blame everyone else for their plight. They expect everyone to do something for them.
This is not realistic.
I lived in places where my friends came from families who may have only been a generation removed from having crossed our borders to start new lives in the USA. Many of them had a good sense of self and had family who took greater pride in being Americans than I did myself. They worked harder than anyone I knew to carve out their place here and learn how to succeed in this country.
I have also seen the opposite of that, from many others who came from a similar background. Using their pride of family before friends, and greed as their means of self worth to establish their livlihood. Or worse, the ones who do nothing and expect the rest of the country to pay their way.
Just because one comes from a priviledged back ground does not mean they will do right, or succeed monetarily or otherwise. They may feel the rake of a different kind of whip on their back when they are actually doing just fine but earning less than others in their family's circles. Whereas the one who comes from poverty or lower means would be quite happy with earning normal wages and working a solid productive job.
The one who comes from money may feel trapped and be unhappy with their lives then. They may do things that go against good morals and character traits to achieve the income and status they believe they should have. The same could be said of the person who comes from a less diverse background, but perhaps the ends are justified in similar fashion by external prompts from their society, or families and friendships as well.
One cannot point the finger to any other source of disatisfaction other than themselves. Today each person alive thinks and moves around doing what they will themselves to do. If a person dies they are no longer a part of the equation. If a person chooses not to live and go forth to affect others or the world then they are surely dead as well.
Campbell makes a good point to an extent. How a person is brought up and the conditions they are raised in will have an enourmous impact on what kind of citizen that person becomes. Children brought up by parents who abuse substances are more likely to abuse substances than kids who's parents were substance free. That being said, there is a point where a person's own power to choose for themselves should over power any influences. I knew a good deal of kids in high school who had a troubled life at home, and all of them resented it. I think it comes down to a person's willpower. You can only blame environmental influences to such an extent; at the end of the day your life is yours to lead. A bad parent is only one influence, coaches, teachers, peers, along with many others are all factors in our lives that can mold the person we turn into. As I said at the end of the day your life is yours to live, we all have a choice, if you end up an alcoholic or drug addict, that is your choice and your choice alone. Free will exists in every sense of the idea.
ReplyDeleteIn various ways I believe that people have a narrow free will. For instance, it has not been documented that one serial killer had a normal childhood. Many were humiliated by parents or relatives, and were physically or mentally abused. In other senses I believe poor character to be genetics. There are many mental disabilities and disorders that come with genetics, such as schizophrenia. Also, people rose in an alcoholic or drug environment often grow up with harder perspectives on life than those that have successful parents or more positive role models.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Campbell only to an extent. As a human being, we were all blessed with free will. Free will allows a person to become whoever they want to be regardless of heredity, environment, and family. I agree that how a person is brought up can and will have a direct impact on how someone acts, but I don;t believe that this makes it set it stone and regardless of how a person acts they will follow in the footsteps of their family.An example of this is a child growing up in an abusive home will not necessarily grow up to be abusive. The behavior of the abusive family will have a heavy and direct impact on the child, but this may cause the child to grow to be exactly opposite of his/her abusive parents. A person always has a choice about how or who they are going to become, whether it be to the good or the bad.
ReplyDeleteI would have to agree. For example, when a parent has a drug abuse problem, the child can grow up thinking that there is nothing wrong with doing drugs, and might even think it's "cool." Such behavior could develop into a drug problem of their own. This would not be of their own free will, since it was the parent's fault for sending the wrong signals to the child in the first place.
ReplyDeleteHi Kelly, I do have to agree with you, somewhat. It is up to our parents to set a good example for us. It also is up to us to determine which road we want to take. I come from a family of smokers. Both of my brothers and mother are long time smokers. I chose at an early age not to follow in their foot steps regarding smoking. This was of my free fill. Yet I completely agree with you that many of the times we follow what examples are shown to us.
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